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Concord Baptist Church, South End, to be turned into condos

A developer has proposed buying the historic Concord Baptist Church, in Boston’s South End neighborhood, and turning it into condominium homes.

If renovated as planned, there will be a total of nine condos across four (or five?) floors of space - these homes will be absolutely HUGE, from 2,000 to 5,000 square feet of space. Several floors will have ceiling heights approaching 20 feet (I didn’t take notes, so don’t quote me).

The proposal has been met with support by members of the community (including the Pilot Block Neighborhood Association), although some residents, namely those whose homes abut the property, have expressed concerns.

Their biggest problem with what is being proposed seems to be that the developer has requested changing the exterior of the building by putting windows along the back of the church, where the pastor’s pulpit is located. The need for windows there is obvious - you can’t have condos without windows, and if you plan on breaking up the units logically, you ‘ll need to have several units along the back - creating the necessity for windows. (Units on this floor will have soaring ceiling heights, with the entire window areas within each unit, unlike in other conversions, where most developers add a floor halfway up the window …)

Adding a row of windows along the back would certainly change the original design of the building, but the abutters main concern is that their new neighbors will be able to look in the back windows of their homes, and onto their back patios and balconies.

Imagine!

As you can probably guess, I think that this is one of the silliest arguments against an urban development.

What is especially galling to me is that there is a definite conflict of interest on the part of most of the project’s critics. Many are also members of the South End Historical Society, which has a self-defined role of protecting the neighborhood’s “historic character”.

In my opinion, these neighbors’ concerns about irretrievably damaging the architecture and design of the historic church cannot be separated by the obvious self-interests of those most affected by whatever is built on the site. (I keep saying “built” but I mean renovated … there are no plans to tear down the church.)

The developer is proposing to add more dormers to the third floor of the condo project. There are currently nine dormers on this level (I think); he would add nine, twelve, twenty more, in order to add light to each unit. How this would look is an unknown. It could fit in nicely, or it could make the building look like a mother-ship with pods-dormers coming out from underneath it.

Neighbors are also concerned about parking. The developer has a simple solution - he is going to add below-ground parking spots, accessible by car-elevator off Warren Ave. (Might I also add, the effect on the neighborhood of having nine new homeowners is significantly less than what happens currently, where the area is overwhelmed by churchgoers, who cause traffic jams and park haphazardly on Warren Ave, flaunting the law, every Sunday.)

To help you understand more about the developer’s proposal and why some people are against modifications to the exterior of the church, I went out and took some photos with my camera phone.

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Well, the above photo isn’t from my camera phone. It is a MS Live photo of the area immediately around the church. This is at the corners of West Brookline Street and Warren Ave. To the right are rowhouses on West Canton Street.

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This is a better aerial view of the church and streets. What you should take note of is the apparent distance between the church and the abutters to the rear of the church - these are the homeowners on West Canton Street.

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I picked a random street in the South End, to give you an idea of the average proximity of rowhouses to one another. Here is Tremont Street, between Milford and Dwight streets. Compare the distance between the rears of the buildings to that of the church and the buildings on West Canton.

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The developer has proposed using this entrance on Warren Ave as the entrance to the parking spaces, which would be below ground. Owners would drive their cars in and take an elevator down to their spots.

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Two sides of the building have windows of similar size and design. The other two sides have the same design, but there are no windows. There are no windows on one side presumably because it is about 4-feet from the building next door, on West Brookline. The other wall, the one facing the back of West Canton, does not have windows because it is the “back” of the church - where the pulpit is located and where the pastor gives his sermons.

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Another view of the windows.

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Turning a church into condos is no easy feat. The interior of the church is something like 80 feet high (I made that up). The developer will add three floors (or four) inside. Toward the top, he is proposing adding more dormers so that there is more light on that level, in each condo unit.

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In order to be able to show the distance between the two buildings, I had to cross Warren Ave to the other side. What you are seeing here is the church to the right and the backsides of the rowhouses on West Canton.

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16 Responses to “Concord Baptist Church, South End, to be turned into condos” »»

  1. Comment by Lame | 05/08/08 at 9:02 am

    you’re blog is getting boring with all these “self-interest” south end messages. of course it is your blog so you are free to do what you want.

  2. Comment by Anon | 05/08/08 at 9:46 am

    This project will be a great addition to the South End. However why are the units so big? A 5,000 sq. feet condo sounds too large to me. Why not two 2,500 units instead?

    P.S. Who is the developer?

  3. Comment by John A Keith | 05/08/08 at 9:55 am

    Lame: thanks, asshole.

    Anon: I guess the developer (whose name I don’t remember) feels there are only a few ways to break up the building in an economical and logical way. Also, less units mean less traffic problems which should make neighbors happier, or should I say, less unhappier.

  4. Comment by anon | 05/08/08 at 10:51 am

    Instead of dormers, why not put in skylights on the vaulted sections? Seems like an obvious win/win - the new units get the needed light and windows and the abutters retain privacy. You can’t really peer down from a skylight. Also, the historical impact would be minimal. I’d take a large, breathtaking skylight over a small dormer alcove any day.

  5. Comment by John A Keith | 05/08/08 at 10:58 am

    Actually, there will be both. On the level between the cupola and dormers, there will be skylights - not so visible to the casual observer. I guess he thinks there is still a need for dormers, though.

  6. Comment by anon | 05/08/08 at 11:16 am

    By the way, what will become of the congregation?

  7. Comment by Christos | 05/08/08 at 11:34 am

    John K.,

    In general, don’t you find it tragic when beautiful old Churches get turned into Condominums? I know it spares the outside of the building, and it’s good for realtors, but so much is lost. Imagine if this were Trinity Church or the Old South Church in Copley Square! I guess my question is, is it worth saving a historic building if the changes made to the inside and outside are so drastic that it completely loses its character? Is that really saving it?

  8. Comment by Christos | 05/08/08 at 11:40 am

    anon, I attended the South End Landmarks hearing on Tuesday, and the Pastor said the congregation is going to build a larger church in Mattapan. He said they sold the building because they outgrew the space.

    You can also read more about it (and other Boston properties) here:
    http://www.boston.com/realestate/news/articles/2007/11/25/finding_a_windfall_in_their_walls/?page=1

  9. Comment by John A Keith | 05/08/08 at 11:41 am

    Anon: the congregation mentioned something about “Judgment Day”.

    Christos: I don’t know what you mean about churches turning into condos being “good for Realtors”. Are you suggesting that self-interest is at play here?

    I don’t know if I would use the word “tragic”. Keeping churches as churches would be most preferable, of course! But, changing demographics being what they are, it’s impossible for many of these churches to remain churches. Well, blame pedophile priests, as well, since a couple of Catholic churches were sold off due to “downsizing”.

    It is very hard to turn churches into condos - and I’ve seen some pretty bad conversions. They end up stripping the interiors of any sort of character. The exteriors, not so much. Most remain pretty similar to what they were, originally.

    I would never live in a church conversion. I think most renovated churches look heinous on both the inside and out.

    Are you asking me if I’d prefer they tear down the Concord Baptist Church? Hell, yes. That holds true for just about any building in Boston, though. I am not a fan of old.

  10. Comment by Christos | 05/08/08 at 12:55 pm

    Thanks John.

    No, not at all. I meant that as a positive, not a negative. I would imagine that anything to help boost the local economy for South Enders, especially during these hard times is a good thing. My close friends are realtors, and many are struggling now. It wasn’t related to your position on this Church. I was contrasting the pros and cons. Pro=creates jobs and income. And not just for realtors, but developers, architects, lawyers, etc. etc. Cons= lose architectural history.

    I’m a huge fan of old. Sometimes though, older buildings are just ugly and I’m all for tearing them down. (City Hall, for example, is hideous to me, and it isn’t even that old)

    But, some buildings are masterpieces. True works of art that should be preserved for future generations.

    I haven’t seen the inside of the Concord Baptist Church. Are there photos anywhere?

    I’m heartbroken over the 1980’s destruction of the interior of the Immaculate Conception Church on Harrison. Beautiful and signficant paintings by Constantino Brumidi (Vatican painter, and famous for the frescoes in the US Capital in DC) were ripped out and discarded along with other works of art. Very sad. There is still a gorgeous hook organ in that Church, and other sculptures and works of art that were spared, but my guess is that whatever remains inside will all be lost if it end up as a condo conversion like this Baptist Church.

  11. Comment by Boston Condo Guy | 05/08/08 at 1:15 pm

    There will be little difference between neighbors overlooking each other at the church and West Canton homes than across the street where homes overlook each other surrounding Carlton Park.

    Warren Avenue is congested on multiple nights per week (the church holds service and other functions throughout the week), not just Sundays. However, the same street congestion (i.e. cars parked in the middle of the street, and the associated peak coming and going times) is seen on Columbus Avenue as well, it’s not unique to Concord Baptist Church.

  12. Comment by Christos | 05/08/08 at 1:16 pm

    John,

    Look at this photo:

    The roof looks like it is about to collapse.

    Now I know why the developer was pleading with the Landmarks Committee on Tuesday. He was very clear that significant structural changes would be needed to ensure that it doesn’t collapse. I believe him, especially after seeing this photo.

    I’m with you, I can’t understand why adding windows in the back would be intrusive to the abutters. (anymore than any other building in the neighborhood) Someone from the neighborhood will have to explain that one. The windows would face their garden and be set back quite a bit from the other buildings. And besides, this is the City! If people want privacy, they need to buy an acre of land in the suburbs. (It’s like people who move to the Back Bay and don’t want tall buildings, imagine that argument in Manhattan!) This nonsense is why they are deterring people from building roofdecks, because it invades privacy!

    This window complaint doesn’t make sense. If they were permitted to tear the entire building down and build a new one, wouldn’t it have windows in the back?

    You are also 100% right about the parking in the median strip on Warren Ave. It was insanity when I lived near that block. This is a huge win for the neighbors, with only 9 condos and below grade parking! They don’t know how lucky they are. Who seriously cares about parking for 9 condos for such a huge building??!

    In contrast, Urbanica is planning on building 30 condo units on the empty lot on Mass ave, between Harrison and Washington street, which appears to be on a smaller lot. For that building, they only plans for 12 surface parking spaces for 30 units.

  13. Comment by Observer | 05/08/08 at 3:32 pm

    The issue re: the windows in the back of the building (pulpit) is actually not a function of zoning, but likely fire code. Fire code in Boston has formulas for how much glazed area, as a % of the overall wall area, is allowed based on how close the structure/wall is to the lot line. For a zero-lot line building, which I believe this is, there is 0 allowable glazing. The logic is that with glazing on the lot line, the owner of the abutting lot could build a structure that would be at risk of fire communicating via the windows.
    There are expensive alternatives - witness the pricey fire-rated windows on the upper parts of 485 Harrison overlooking the Leon Electric bldg., but it is costly.
    IMHO, I understand why the developer wants the glazing, but he also should have known about the fire code. You can’t just change the laws because you want to or because they are inconvenient.
    Having walked through the building and living rather close to it, I can say that it looks structurally to be in terrible condition - the roof is sagging and the walls are maintained via post tension rods. In general, the floorplates do not progam well for a conversion, hence the absurdly large units that would be very tough to sell.
    If the City wants the deal to proceed, the should have the developer maintain the Waltham and Warren facades, knock down the structure, step in 5-8′ off the pulpit facade to get the glazing legally, and build a new structure integrated to the old facades that makes sense.
    Just my humble opinion.

  14. Comment by anon | 05/08/08 at 9:45 pm

    These days, the only “religious” organization moving TO the South End is the church of TomKat and their asian baby. I guess this makes sense with all the crazywood people in town making movies and getting tax breaks. Perhaps they’ll get together with the godless yuppies in the Neighborhood Parents for the Hurley School and build a xenu-themed miniature golf course on Worcester St. (right next to the equally absurd soccer field). Here’s hoping!

  15. Jim
    Comment by Jim | 05/09/08 at 10:26 am

    Why is it that people are so quick to jump to the religious bigotry argument. The Baptists, like most Christians, believe in things like the holy “trinity”, “resurrection from the dead” and the “immaculate” conception but somehow the religious beliefs of others are labelled “crazy.” Hmmmm… and the Mormons believe that the Angel Moroni delivered the word of God, which were on some golden plates buried somewhere in New York, to Joseph Smith. And then there’s the Quakers, Shakers, and movers? I think you get my point.
    Bottom line, I thought this was a free country and that freedom to practice one’s own religion was a fundamental right. We really have reached a point of severe religious intolerance of others’ beliefs and it sure is interesting to see that get played out on a blog about real estate in the South End!! God bless America!! [IF you believe in God and aren’t a “godless yuppie”] Are all yuppies “godless” or only the ones that took anon’s free parking space away from him? The nerve. Imagine wanting a soccer filed for kids at a school to play on. Humppffff…. how awful.

  16. Comment by Raleigh Real Estate | 05/09/08 at 11:47 am

    Very interesting post. Seems like a neat project! I can’t wait to see what the final outcome turns out like. : ]

    Thanks for sharing!

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