A Boston businessman wishes to open a pizzeria in the South End. Some residents have complained, saying their neighborhood already has too many restaurants, and they don’t want to deal with additional noise, smells, trash, and rats.
So, I decided to explore the alley behind the restaurant, to see if the neighbors had a case.
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Loading ...Bring it to Washington Str. Minot Hall has a large retail bay still empty
or 45 West Newton(conner of Washington). There a too many vacant store fronts between West Newton
and Mass Ave on Washington Street. Plus the neighborhood seems pretty pro development.
The whole time I was thinking,
wow, what kind of person has that much time on their hands.
Oh. :-)
I’m not quite sure where I fall on this issue. I do feel that
your “expose” is, at best, incomplete. The hours of concern are more likely to be in the evening.
Your video appears to be earlier in the day. Additionally, visiting the alley once would certainly
not give an adequate representation of the potential trash, noise and rodent issues. Finally,
studying the alley without a busy commercial establishment like The Upper Crust says little about
how things would change if it were to open. Do you really think you’ve offered a fair and
balanced look at this issue?
Hi.
Well, I disagree with your comments. I think
visiting the alley is a good way to measure the effects, since the complaints of the neighbors are
that there is noise, trash, and rodents in the alley.
There are other commercial
establishments on that block, including two-three restaurants. Adding another one would increase
the amount of trash, noise, rodents, not create it, so if there was already a problem, which the
neighborhood says there is, I’d be able to see it, today.
I’d be happy to take photos at
night. I was just walking down there, about ten minutes ago. I didn’t go into the alley, but
would be willing to.
The establishments on that block take their trash out the front - so
any vermin infestation would be visible from the street. Yet, I’ve never seen any.
There
is no noise in the back alley, because there is no foot traffic back there.
I think Upper
Crust is busy days and early evenings - not going to be a late-night establishment, by any
means.
It will be similar to Nicole’s - quick in-and-out for a couple slices, emptying out
by 9 during the summer, maybe 10 on the weekends.
I would expect the trash and noise issues
to be evident 24-hours a day, currently, if they were a problem. They weren’t.
Again, I
can explore again, at night.
I tend to think the (few) neighbors against this are getting
more attention then they deserve. Plenty of people seem to to think it’s not a
problem.
Me, included.
I absolutely agree that
visiting the alley is a good barometer. You just need to do it more than once and at varied times.
I am skeptical of your claim there isn’t noise in the back alley, until you spend a little more
time there. My only point is that your “expose” is less than thorough, not that The Upper Crust
South End should not be opened. 20 minutes in the alley falls a bit short of a responsible look at
the issue.
I’ve been in
there, and you haven’t.
So I have 100% more knowledge than you do.
Who should be
skeptical of whom?
Why are you even arguing this point? I live in the neighborhood and know
it quite well. I know the entrances, I know the exits, I know and have been in the majority of
shops on that street. I know the alley and I know many people who live on all three streets. I
know from what I saw that day what it is like, day or night. Are you suggesting it “magically” was
clean that day? It’s empty. It’s not like I was there on the one day out of eternity that it
was clean. It’s spotless, is what I’m saying.
Are you arguing semantics here? Are you
arguing data collection? You win on that point!
Wow. That was
priceless. I guess you missed my point.
No, I understand your point, completely, you were discussing the amount of analysis I
had done, whether or not I had collected enough data to make an educated decision.
Yes, a
one-time visit is not enough to go by. Yes, it’s incomplete.
I’ll spend a week down
there, 1 hour a night, after dark, with paper and pencil, and get back to you. Ha ha.
I
wasn’t suggesting I was making a “definitive study” of the issue, my on-screen comments
notwithstanding. It was supposed to be educational, not decisive.
However, having said
that, my study included personal observation on that afternoon, plus hundreds of trips up and down
the streets nearby - not the alley, but the neighborhood. My study also included personal
interviews, in the sense that no one has ever mentioned noise, rats, or smells, before. Also,
personal experience, as I worked in the basement of one of the buildings for three years and we
never had rats in the basement (drug parties, on the other hand, constantly).
My frustration
wasn’t with you, initialed-commenter, but with the few neighbors who came out against this. I
don’t think they are being honest when they say there is noise, rats, smells, and trash. They’re
being dramatic.
Much as my claims leave a lot out, so do theirs. They haven’t proved that
what they say is true. Therefore, I’m skeptical, actually, unbelieving.
Re. the 45 W
Newton St., I believe UC bought its liquor license for this new restaurant from that
address!
Also, the liquor issue is another things to consider: they have a liquor license,
so doesn’t that increase the concerns that neighbors have about hours of operation and people? UC
can’t operate limited hours with a liquor license, or else it would lose $$ (assuming they paid
bigtime for that license.)
It is hard to know what the impact
will be, but it is certainly worth a fair discussion. I appreciate your experience here, but
don’t think you have enough to represent the impact on residents. I think a big part of the
neighbors issue was that they were not given a reasonable forum to discuss. We are all part of a
community. Many of these residents are responsible for making the neighborhood the attractive and
vibrant place that it is today. They can tell you about a time when there were only crack
houses(literally, crack houses) on that block. They have supported eachother and the civic service
aspects of not only these few blocks, but the South End for longer than you or I have known the
difference between West Brookline and West Newton. We all have very valuable interests in what
goes on. There is a certain level of respect and involvement that existing members of the
community deserve; certainly as much as we are willing to give to a new business interest. For the
record, I have been a resident of that block of West Canton for more than 2 years. I live just a
few doors in from Starbucks. I have been involved in a number of real estate development projects
in the neighborhood and do know the specifics of this case quite well. Rodents are a concern,
noise is something to consider and trash is already a problem. Have you experienced the smell at
the corner of Beacon and Charles(half a block from an existing Upper Crust)? It, quite literally,
smells like a pizza. Again, I am not necessarily against The Upper Crust opening, but I think it
is they who should prove an understanding and respect for these issues, concerns to the residents
you are so quick to dismiss.
It is
hard to know what the impact will be, but it is certainly worth a fair discussion. I appreciate
your experience here, but don’t think you have enough to represent the impact on residents. I
think a big part of the neighbors issue was that they were not given a reasonable forum to discuss.
We are all part of a community. Many of these residents are responsible for making the neighborhood
the attractive and vibrant place that it is today. They can tell you about a time when there were
only crack houses(literally, crack houses) on that block. They have supported eachother and the
civic service aspects of not only these few blocks, but the South End for longer than you or I have
known the difference between West Brookline and West Newton. We all have very valuable interests in
what goes on. There is a certain level of respect and involvement that existing members of the
community deserve; certainly as much as we are willing to give to a new business interest. For the
record, I have been a resident of that block of West Canton for more than 2 years. I live just a
few doors in from Starbucks. I have been involved in a number of real estate development projects
in the neighborhood and do know the specifics of this case quite well. Rodents are a concern, noise
is something to consider and trash is already a problem. Have you experienced the smell at the
corner of Beacon and Charles(half a block from an existing Upper Crust)? It, quite literally,
smells like a pizza. Again, I am not necessarily against The Upper Crust opening, but I think it is
they who should prove an understanding and respect for these issues, concerns to the residents you
are so quick to dismiss.
Hey. Sorry, your original comment didn’t post. Must have choked on the length …
ahem.
Anyway, thanks for commenting.
I
noticed you went back and edited some of your earlier commentary. Interesting.
Yes! You are right! I removed the
word “fucking” from my comment, because I thought it was vulgar.
I wanted to clarify my
point of view. Do you think I’ve somehow changed my opinion? I haven’t. I just come off more
eloquent (ly?).
Anything else to add before I close the comments on this issue?
I think Nicole Pizza will lose lots
of money if Upper Crust comes in right there… Perhaps they are the one causing this ruckus? Just
my guess! :) There are so many pizza places in the neighborhood already, there is South End Pizza,
there is Emilio’s, there is that new place on Columbus called Formagio or something…and there is
PICO too! and there is a New York Pizza on Mass Ave…
Do we really need another pizza place
in the area?
I study at that Starbucks on Tremont like 4 times a week, mid-day into the
early evening, and I am there on the weekends too! Let me tell you that the trash an in front of
the store is always full and overflowing…
I have to admit they try to be nice to the
neighbors by having this new thing where you can call in to order your coffee and they bring it out
so that you don’t leave your dog outside making noise…
what the area needs to focus on is
the issue of dog poop every where when people walk their dogs late at night and do not pick up poop
because no one is out and looking!
I don’t see the Starbucks store being a noise issue, I
rarely see a dog bark when I am there, but I do see trash as an issue…
I also go to
Tremont 647 and Sister Sorel often, sometimes into the late night and the crowd is never loud when
they are outside smoking or getting a cab, or saying good bye to friends…
One time when I
was sitting and eating outside at Garden of Eden down the street and a HUGE and i mean HUGE RODENT
ran along the wall and I just lost my appetite right there and then!
So yes, kill the
rodents, and kill those that let their dogs poop without picking up after their dogs…
But
do we really need another pizza place in the neighborhood? How about if we bring in some good
healthy burritos :)
VB
- are you male or female? I am trying to figure out if I know you.
I think the block would
be better off without another pizza place, yes. Nicole’s was like my second home, when I worked
at Coldwell Banker. Now that I’m on low-carbs, I never eat pizza. I miss it there.
I
would prefer retail or commercial space.
I think the trash in front of Starbucks you are
talking about is the barrel provided by the city of Boston. Yes, it is always overflowing. I
blame the city for this, not Starbucks. And, people, for that matter. If a trash barrel is full,
you don’t keep putting stuff in it!
And about dog poop? Don’t get me started.
i am a male last time i checked… we do not know each other… :)
i feel like
that space is too small for retail, they should bring in another type of food, maybe wraps and
sandwiches…
I have seen people simply put a cup or trash next to that trash bin, it is
overflowing of Starbucks cups, that’s the problem.
As far as I’m concerned the
‘Boston Businessman’ deserves a little karmic retribution. He happens to be a liar and a thief.
He started his first location using stolen recipes and processes after working for years at Sweet
Tomatoes in Newton Center. He chose not to ‘buy’ the recipes as did the owner of the Newton
Center pizza shop. It would be nice to see him fail, at least at this location.
Both the
Beacon Hill and Newbury Street locations have had severe problems with their ventilation systems.
From the Beacon Hill Times- “Jordan Tobin, one of the owners of The Upper Crust pizzeria which
rents space in the Lincolnshire building at 20 Charles Street, applied for a #36A conditional use
permit for take-out and a change in the building’s legal occupancy to include a restaurant with
take-out — a change that should have been obtained when the pizzeria took over the premises from
The Juice Guys six years ago.
But before the committee was willing to support that
application, they asked Tobin to correct its rooftop ventilation system that neighbors say emits
excessive noise and odors, making some of their apartments difficult to live in. ”
I know
the Newbury Street location is an ongoing mess- I work 2 buildings over and often times when I
leave out of the back door I can see tons of smoke and the smell is unbearable. Saunders Hotel
Group moved out of 222 Newbury Street recently and I’ve heard from several people that the main
reason was that the pizza place was making them miserable.
Last week I saw them blowing
smoke out the front door with an industrial fan- nice way to run a business! DOn’t see any other
pizza place needing to do that.
I live directly behind 647 and the expose does not show their dumpster. Each night they take the trash out and its extremely loud when they wheel it up the ramp. Also the smell from the grill often saturates our entire apartment.
that said, its a great neighborhood hangout and i wouldnt havve it any other way.
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